Conversation with Meha Agrawal

Kris Plachy: Hey, I'm Kris Plachy, host of the Lead Your Team podcast. Running a million dollar business is not easy, and whether you are just getting started with building your team or you've been at this for a while, I'm going to bring you honest, specific and clear practices you can use. Right now today to improve how well you lead your team.

Let's go ahead and get started.

Hello everyone. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast. I'm super excited to have an interview for you today. I am interviewing Meha Agrawal. With Silk and Saunder. She is the founder and c e o. And if you don't know about Silk and Saunder, it's an absolutely beautiful organization. She has built, um, on a couple of different platforms.

So I actually was a member, um, and that is part of why I was so excited to interview her because I received her beautiful journals in the mail. And that's exactly what you do when you sign up for Silk Saunder. You get this beautiful, it's beautiful and it's got. Questions to reflect on and quotes, and it's got this gorgeous layout and ways for you to think about the month.

So you get monthly journals. Then she also has created the Saunder Club, which is a, a community where you can take the work and, and deepen it. And she talks all about that on our podcast today. So what I wanted to, um, share with you all, and the reason I was super excited, first of all, because I kind of fangirled and I was like, oh, I love your business.

Come and talk to me. And second of all, she's built a really beautiful business and she's done so through seed money and through growing her business a little bit differently than I think a lot of my listeners do. But she has a gorgeous perspective and in order for her to qualify and to get the funding that she needed, she had to do a lot of the work that I teach my clients, um, in order to establish a business that is scalable and also maybe in some cases, one that you might wanna sell.

So she shares some really powerful perspective. She shares, I believe, her gorgeous story about why she does what she does, and she also shares very salient wisdom that all of us can apply to our business. So without further ado, I'm gonna turn it over to the interview with Meha Agrawal of Silk and Saunder.

Well, hello May. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm thrilled to be, to have you. Um, for everyone listening, as I mentioned in the intro, I am a huge fan of Maha's business, which is Silk and Saunder, and so when they approach me to have you on. I was like, you know what? I don't normally interview people that aren't clients, but I wanna meet her.

Aw, I'm delighted. I'm so excited to be here. I fangirled a little bit on the list. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Let's find out. I wanna, how she did this made this beautiful business. So why don't we go ahead and just have you, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to my listeners and you know, who are you and what's your gorgeous business, and tell us all the things.

Absolutely. So, uh, I'm Meha the founder and c e o of Silk and Saunder. Uh, for those of you listening that don't know, we're a self-care and mental wellness experience for modern women. So we make daily self-care easy and fun from the comfort of your home. And we do that through a couple different touchpoints.

So, as part of your membership with Silk and Saunder, you get access to a beautiful, thoughtfully curated guided journal, inspired by positive psychology, bullet journaling, and other evidence-based exercises. That's really your space to create, to be yourself, to reflect, but also combine it with action. Um, you know, thinking about productivity and blending that with a bit of introspection.

And then also as a member of Silicon Saunder, you get access to what we call Saunder Club, which is a private members only community. Uh, it's online and you essentially visit it for all things silk and sa and beyond. So in that group, you are able to share. Your learnings from all the activities in the journals themselves.

You can get inspired by one another, but most importantly, we've created a safe space to go deep and ask the questions that you don't normally ask your friends or your family or your colleagues about. So that's SA Club. And then last we have SA circles, which are these guided journaling sessions where we foster deeper connection with yourself and others through, uh, a very special programming where it's a mix of the facilitator participating alongside of you.

But we have you reflect and go through certain guided. Journaling prompts as well as authentic connection exercises to elevate your emotional health. So that's what I do day to day. Uh, and then I guess a quick backstory, before I started Silicon Saunder, I was a software engineer and product manager. So I started my career working at Goldman Sachs in New York, switched over to the startup industry, worked at a company called The Muse, and then eventually found my way to San Francisco where I worked at Stitch Fix.

And so a lot of, uh, Great experience working for other female founders, which is just not always something people get access to. So I'm very, very privileged in that sense. That is so, so fabulous. I love all of that. And, um, I'm ca I'm so silken, Saunder is such a curious right name for your business. Mm-hmm.

So where did the name come from? Yeah, great question. So Saunder is actually a made up ward. It's, uh, not yet in the Webster dictionary, but it's in the dictionary of obscure sorrows. And what it means is that every passerby around you is living this life populated by their own ambitions, their own fears, their own worries, their own dreams.

And you think you're on this journey of. Life and its complexity alone, but in reality it's a shared feeling. Mm-hmm. And so Saunder is really about that shared heaviness of what life presents itself as and, and what you think is isolating. So silk is our way of adding a smoothness to that otherwise isolating, complex heaviness that life usually offers.

How beautiful. Really. Thank you. It's very beautiful. So one of the things I ask, I have to point out to everybody listening. First of all, I just wanna PA point out to all y'all that she introduced herself as a founder and c e o. So, and you know, I know that, uh, Mehan, I don't really know each other that well, so I'm gonna give you a little heads up.

You know, I'm on a mission as part of my work is, is the how to c e o program, right? Because so many women won't. Call themselves. Oh yeah, you right. Yeah. And of course, I'm just determined that we need to be everywhere and build our own tables and not, and stop waiting to be invited to them. Right?

Absolutely. So I just wanna point that out because I just love that that was spontaneous and that's how you, you, uh, introduce yourself. And secondly, um, I love the clarity of your vision. It was said so beautifully. So you were a software engineer and that led you to this introspective, right? Like gorgeous, um, coach slash wisdom seeking maven.

Right. Oh, thank you. So what, what is your, what is your compelling reason? I ask my clients this a lot, right? Like, what is it that you believe you were here to do and that your business is the vessel to create that? Um, yeah, I am happy to share. It's a, it's a very simple reason and it's really to spark joy and confidence in myself and others.

Mm-hmm. And that is literally my reason for being, and that is why Silk and Saunder is something that I see myself working at forever. And so what was it about transitioning from? Why did you leave the work you were doing to do this work? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think as a software engineer and as a product manager, right, there's this desire to build mm-hmm.

And create things. And I think what's interesting is, With software engineering, there's a whole compounding effect of imposter syndrome playing in because in order for your program to comp to run, it needs to first compile. And so you're constantly tinkering. But if you forget a semicolon, you might be stuck for days.

And what I love about entrepreneurship is it's. Building, but on steroids, you become a founder because you're a lifelong builder and creator, and there's this innate curiosity that you're constantly tinkering with, right? And so computer science is a study of solving problems. And I think entrepreneurship is just the limitless, you know, opportunity.

Yeah. To apply that, right? Mm-hmm. And so the transition. I mean, I didn't realize it at the time, right? Because I was always complaining about being a software engineer and feeling like my creativity was being stifled and, you know, constantly, constantly on this, um, you know, negative cycle of not realizing that it was really just setting me up for success to be a founder and an entrepreneur.

And it's really because you're constantly solving problems. I mean, when you think about what we do for the team, we are not always being the visionary that we want to be. We're constantly firefighting alongside our team, but also rolling up our sleeves and thinking about what's next Exactly. And what we have to, right.

That's goal. So how long have you been, how long have you had this business? Yeah, so it's been a nights and weekends project since the end of 2017, but I went full-time in 2019. Anybody say that? I've heard, I've heard side hustle. I've heard all the things. Nice. Meet nice to project. Yeah. Um, and then I went fulltime in 2019.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then I ended up raising my first round, myse round rather in, um, at the end of 2019. Okay. So you went the way of like startup. With the, with some capital. Oh, yeah. So initially it was bootstrapped, uh, we were able, we were, were self-sufficient. However, in order to carry out my much larger vision, I knew that we needed to inject some capital to really transform into the bigger business that I still dream of for silicon Saunder.

Yeah. So what's that like? Tell me about, Working out there in the world, because I know a lot of the women I coach are bootstraps. Right. Like they're just, yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, a lot of women also don't want to go this way. Right? Right. But when you do really wanna multiply your growth and your reach and your exposure, this is certainly the way to go.

So how did you go through that process and what were some of the steps you took to Yeah. Achieve the capital that you needed? Yeah. Well first of all, it's aligning with your why, right? So especially for folks that don't have a coach or don't have access to a coach, I think the first step is to really think about why do you wanna go for outside capital?

And I think there's a lot of stigma, right? Only less than 3% of women get, get venture capital. And so it feels like this uphill battle, which I'm not gonna lie to you, it's, but you have to ask yourself, why are you building this business? So if I wanted to be. This beautiful stationary business or notebooks business, the unit economics pan out.

I probably wouldn't need outside capital, but I'm trying to have much broader impact more quickly and really change the game for the emotional health epidemic. And in that case, I can't do it alone. And so I needed to identify why do I want this money? It's not just to be. On the front cover of Forbes or anything like that, it's really about inspiring my customers and, and delivering on my promise for personalization and all these other things I, I promised since, since the beginning.

And knowing that I can't do that alone. I'm gonna have to hire people much better than me and smarter than me. And, uh, and I want to do that sooner rather than later. So it's a mix of knowing why and also understanding what you're gonna use that capital for. Mm-hmm. If the, if the answer is, I don't know, you know, maybe you're not ready.

Mm-hmm. I love your perspective and I think it's really helpful too because you, this is, that's the culture you came outta too, right? Yeah. That you watched and witnessed. This is just how you roll. Yeah. And you worked in, you know, in the Bay and et cetera, and watching these startups there. And honestly Chris, I think for me personally, you know, whether or not, I mean, I know Silicon Saunder's gonna succeed, but even if we don't end up having a large scale impact quick enough or whatever it might be, I think for me personally, what I felt was missing both as a software engineer, but.

But mostly as a, as a founder and c e o was enough women who had paved the path for me, and so I highly respect those that did. But at the same time, I felt like if I have the option and I actually want this for my business. Mm-hmm. What might that do for women who second guess, Is outside capital, right.

For me. Exactly. Right. So good. Yes. Yeah. And I think, you know, I say this a lot, I just think we're on such a transformative time right now as it relates to leadership and thought leadership, um, and how we think about developing, growing, leading companies. Yeah. And we're in a little, it's very fractious and there's a lot of tension and, but I think it's good in the long run, but a lot of the systems that.

Have been in place for many hundreds of years. Yes. Yeah. For what leadership looks like and who leaders are, and how leaders are supposed to be. I mean, that's just becoming, that's deteriorating. Yeah. And we're watching the. The tumultuous of that. Yeah. Right. And yet at the same time, that's what my, you know, my fist pounding on the desk is I'm teaching an empathic c e o course right now.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's just, you know, we need you, we need the empaths who are leading companies to show up Absolutely. To fill this void. Right. And real. And whether that's using capital or mm-hmm. It's just, Standing up and owning what your ideas are and really doing the work of getting them out there. And of course, my little part of the world that I work with my clients on is you can't do that if you can't grow the team.

Oh, yeah. Right. Oh yeah. So let's talk about that. All right. So you get this idea. Mm-hmm. You're like, okay, can you change the world's? I'm gonna solve the epi, the emotional wellness epidemic, which of course, I am now in love with that phrase. Love it. And. Who did you start with? So do you mean by who? You mean on your team?

Who brought you, who did you bring on to start with right away? Like who was part of that first team for you? So for me it was just having a graphic designer work on the actual product. And I was doing most of the legwork initially. Mm-hmm. And I have to give myself credit because I normally don't. But that was who it was nights and weekends.

And then I had my. Then boyfriend, now fiance helping me stuff the bubble mailers. And you know, in the middle of, we were, we were growing while this was still a project and I remember we took the little carts from our building and we're lugging those in the middle of winter to U S P S only to get there.

And they're like, we don't have space for this. This is too many orders. We're not gonna be able to get these out. I'm like, I don't know legally if you're allowed to say that, but okay, we'll go to a different U S P S. So a lot of it in the early days was, was me, but, but that was because I didn't have the financial resources to pay someone fairly, right?

Mm-hmm. And so I figured out pretty quickly, like what was the absolute bare minimum that I needed help with. And I am not a designer by trade, and so I knew I needed help. With the new monthly additions, it's, it's new content. I was, you know, doing my own research and curating the content for Silicon Saunder month after month, but someone needed to bring that to life.

So I was the first person, and then over time I started to hire other kind of freelancers. And we had this arrangement where most of the work wasn't. Full-time anyways. And so it was really, really lucky when I realized that I could leverage those types of resources. And some of our, some of our freelancers actually were customers of mine who really loved the product and wanted to help in any way they could.

Um, and then eventually fast forward, uh, I guess May or June-ish of 2020, I, I ended up closing our seed round led by Red Point, which, uh, Brought us to 4 million raised in total. Nice. Um, and that's when I could really commit to hiring a full-time team. Yes. And so our first, um, our first employee, uh, happened to be from, uh, stitch Fix where I used to work.

And she kind of handles all the operation side of things because there were things that I needed to now get off my plate and like be less in the weeds so that I could start to focus on the other parts of our business and hiring other resources to carry out a bigger vision. And so, so yeah, it was, it was definitely a.

Bit of a journey, but I think what's really critical is for people to realize that you don't have to go zero, zero to a hundred right away, right? You can start to create your army and also empower those around you to realize that you only need a few hours of their time, but they get to contribute to this very amazing and compelling vision that you have.

And then once you have the financial resources to bring either them or new folks as as full-time employees, you absolutely can and should. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's really good. So, When you started building the team, when you actually had that capacity to do so. What I love about what you're saying is, you know, you have the ability not only to hire the team, but also to hire people at a certain who had a certain level of experience Yeah.

And skill too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, What, what did you have to do as the founder, c e o to prepare for and make those jobs ready? Mm-hmm. To create the space to build this team. And, and did you manage people before in your Not officially so, so not, not officially, but I did, I managed as a product manager, I think you get really good about influencing without authority because they're technically your peers that you have to, to, to bring, bring along on the ride with you.

But, um, officially I did not have any direct reports. So that was definitely a learned, learned skill. And I'm still learning, you know, and I think influencing with authority is a whole different beast. Yeah. That's a whole other fact. Yeah. You gotta be careful about that one. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's a, that's a learning I've, I've had to make where I can speak with a lot of conviction and you know, like a lot of like strong opinion.

But at the same time, I expect my team to push back because oftentimes I'm not always right and I don't wanna be always right. No, it's great to have people who will tell you no. Yeah, yeah. Um, I was leading my coaching call this morning with the how to c e o clients and we were talking about that very thing that as a female c e o, especially, I had two calls today and one of my other clients was talking about a c e O group that she is a part of, and it's all men.

Oh man. Right. So there's that, and then B, coming there, just, just being at that level is very isolating. Yeah. They can feel very isolated because there isn't anybody giving you feedback. Yes. Or really sort of going through the corners of your brain. Yeah. Through those things. And you can't do that with your team.

Yep. That's not their responsibility. Yep. So what, what has been then for you, like, the most challenging part of building this team? What, what kind of surprised you about managing people or leading people Yeah. That you weren't expecting? Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, I think there's many things. I think the, the first one is, As you transition from founder to c e o, right?

Your role evolves a little bit and you need to inspire your team to make some of those executive decisions within their scope without you. Mm-hmm. And that's challenging when you've touched every part of the business. You may not know the best way to do things, but you know the scrappy way to do things.

And so you're constantly used to offering the house. And so one thing that I found challenging is when I. Pose a question, or when I'm noticing a problem, I have a tendency to jump to the solution. Mm-hmm. Instead of pausing and saying, what do you think is the best solution? Or How would you do this? If you were in my shoes or this is yours, how will, how will you tackle this problem?

Mm-hmm. And that is not natural. Right. For the problem solvers a k a, the founders, it is so unnatural to pause and assume that someone's gonna have an idea that, well then you have to watch them think, yes, it's exhaust. It's exhausting. I, I have, I know, I already know, I know the answer. Absolutely. But you know, it is so rewarding when you watch your employee maybe struggle at first, but able to arrive at the same if not better solution that you had in mind, and then they're just never gonna forget it, and they're gonna feel ownership of it.

Yeah. And then they can replicate that too. Yes. So good, right? Yes. Absolutely. What do you think has been sort of the biggest mistake you've made as you've been growing your team? Ooh, lemme think about this. I think core values are incredibly important, and I, I think I'm, I'm lucky in that, uh, I worked for companies with great, great culture, and so I knew that was gonna be one of the, well, that's, and what I'd love for you about getting seed money, excuse me for interrupting you.

Yeah. But you have to, you have to prep. All that, right? Oh yeah. You've gotta show up with everything. Absolutely. So a lot of the boo bootstraps out there, they don't, they do this as like an afterthought. Yeah. But when you have to go out into the world and say, this is what we do, and this is what we're gonna do, and this is why, and this is the problem we're gonna solve, and all the things that I know.

We probably have the angel prep, prep meeting. Yeah. Um, yeah, you had to do that work, so I'm sorry. Continue, because No, no. And agree with you. And I think, and I, and I will say whether or not you're raising capital, I think the, the core values that you have for your company, a, the beauty is that you get to choose them.

I mean, they're probably stemming from your own personal core values, right? I mean, ours are very, very like simple, but they're totally me. It's about celebrating authenticity. Practicing radical thoughtfulness. Mm-hmm. Improving your child, thinking outside the box, like those are our main core values. What was the one you said about child?

You block out embracing your inner child. So when you're silly, when like making time to be silly or play, that's what's gonna inspire the creativity that we need to succeed at silicon. Do you have a, do you have a lot of threes in your numerology chart? Do I,

I stopped you. That was fun. I'm not sure, but it. Probably it. We'll have to find that out. Well, that'll be, that'll be the next interview, which that'll be fun. Little exercise. Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm in Aries through my like, true truest def Yeah. Truest definition. Um, but anyways, I think the reason those values are important is whether or not you seek an advisor or an investor or a partner, like, you know, romantic partners.

Those, those kind of carry out right outside of your company as well. So now I can't even remember. Chris, what was the, we were talking about, we were talking about values, and what is one of the biggest mistakes you made? Oh, biggest mistakes for values. Yeah. So the, the reason I bring up values is because I think you have to be very intentional with the interview questions you ask, um, related to the values as well as whatever you hire for.

So in our case, we hire for being bright, thoughtful, and kind, uh, and of integrity. And so in order for us, To vet that, right? We should make sure that we have the right questions that are stemming from those very specific values or what we hire for. And I think the reason I bring this up is chances are, uh, many of the founders that, that I know we're just.

We're likable people, we're personable people. It's natural for us to get along with almost every candidate that we talk to, and it becomes very difficult to see who's right for the company stage and who's right for the business and who, who's able to be a self-starter versus who might be good, you know, two years from now.

And so I think the mistake that we, I made early on was kind of jumping the gun sometimes on, on hires. And kind of putting them at a disadvantage, right? Yeah. Because you come into the chaos of a startup and like if you use structure, you're not gonna enjoy it. And I think, you know, I think those are the things that you have to be intentional as a founder to make sure that you're vetting and you're being fair to who you're bringing in Surprises.

Well, it's a great point because I think, um, one of the things that I know to be true about entrepreneurs is we, we really do see potential in everything. Yes. And so that includes people. Yep. So, you know, they might, they're amazing and friendly and Yeah. So Cool. And I can make 'em be an expert in Yeah.

Insert here. Right? Yeah. And then of course, like you said, we set them up. Yep. Failure. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And, um, and then we have to deal with that part, and that's not any fun. Yeah. I have to ask you, because I love that you brought up tying interview questions to values, because that's a big part of what we talk about also.

Yeah. And we, the values, the way that I like to also teach clients to think about values is that the values are how you hire and fire, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you're, I wanna know how, you know, in an interview, if someone's bright. Ooh, that's a great question. Mm-hmm. Like what is your, and I know that can be job specific too, in the way that you ask the question.

Yeah. But I'll give you an example. We were just talking about this, uh, in my group, and we were talking about how to know if somebody has, takes ownership. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? And. You know, we have, the first kind of interview question is tell, tell me about a time when you had to show and demonstrate.

Right. Okay. And then we have the other kind of interview question, which is, here's a scenario, how would you handle it? Yeah. And of course my preference is, Actually witnessing people do things. Yeah. Right. So I either will make someone role play. Yeah. Or what we were talking about with ownership is I would say to someone, you know what, I'm gonna send you three questions at the end of the day that I'd love for you to answer.

Yeah. And just goes back to me by eight in the morning. Yeah. And then can send them. Oh, interesting to see whether they would actually, if they would email me and say, Hey, I didn't get the questions you said you were gonna send me. That's super interesting. Or if they don't, and then I say in the morning, Hey, I didn't see the questions come through.

They'll see if they say, well, you didn't send 'em to me. Yeah, that is really interesting. Yeah, I might try that. I know, but I ask about Bright because that's something we've been talking about as a team. Like it's this. Like we've been calling it quick minded. Yeah. And so we've been also thinking like, how, how do you bet for that?

How do you vett that? Yeah. Yeah. So I think there is, there's two things that I typically do. So number one, for role specific stuff, we actually have a pretty strong philosophy on take home projects. I know they can be controversial for certain roles. However, for me, I think it shows you how much, like how this person can independently work given the stage of our company.

It's really important. And so I think there's certain roles where that's a good fit. For the bright question, I bet this in two ways. Number one, I, I have, I first asked, tell me your quick life story. Where were you born and raised? What brought you to what you do? And that really allows. An individual to focus on the holistic picture of like who they are and what brought them there.

Very much like a podcast, right? Yeah. Like that's something you don't get to do always with interviews, right? Don't start at the very beginning. You just kind of start after college. And so what I start to pick up there is how can they articulate their story? Which pieces are they focusing on, what do they sound most energized by?

And then I also do a case study question, and that's specific to the role. Mm-hmm. And kinda to your quick minded piece, it's. How does this person critically think on the spot? Mm-hmm. How can they diagnose the problem and come up with a solution or multiple solutions and then convince me that it's the right solution?

Mm-hmm. And it helps me see how they're thinking about the edge cases, and it helps me think about how they're responding and what their body language is, is like, and it all feeds into the thoughtfulness and the brightness of this individual. Because you can be smart. Right. But to be bright you have to be, you have to be willing to go deep.

Yeah. That can only be solved in, in a response to a difficult question. Yeah. And that is, in my experience, like we've been, this has been an interesting time cuz my business is growing also, and we have this core team of women that are just like fricking quick. It doesn't matter what their role is. Yeah.

Between one of us, we're gonna figure something out. Yeah. And it, it becomes very obvious when someone doesn't have that. Yeah. And, um, so, so yeah, I just, and I think as entrepreneurs, that's a, I love that you brought it up because. I think it's a unspoken truth that most of us actually should be hiring. Yes.

That quality. Yes. Because of the nature of the business that we run, no matter what it is that we did. Yeah. Yeah. We've gotta have people who can think and be resilient and, and quick. Yeah. And right. So yeah. I love that. Okay, so what are your favorites books? Ooh, I'm so happy you asked me this question. No, I have a laundry list.

Um, so the one thing. Really great book, especially for entrepreneurs, talks about how you can't just go from one extreme work to the other extreme family, work, family. You have to really think about the different buckets of your life and a lot of Silicon Saunders inspired from from that book. And really balancing, you know, your spiritual life as well as your personal goals, as well as your money management.

Essentialism is another great one. Oh my God. Essential. Love it. Love it. Yeah. So you know all about Essentialism Multipliers is Hands. Have you read that one? No, I haven't, but I Oh man. It is, it's amazing. Um, honestly, it is really, really empowering for a founder to see how you might be accidentally diminishing your team by qualities that you consider your strengths.

Like for me, I'm an idea generator. But that's actually diminishing the multipliers that I'm hiring. So that's a great book. I love, uh, oh my gosh, I'm gonna butcher the title. I think it's predictably Irrational, but it's about PRI pricing strategies and the psychology behind that. Nice. Um, and then Power of Now, which, uh, is great.

So those would be probably amongst my, my top five. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to know that. Yeah. And then what thought leaders do you thought, oh, Brene Brown love her. Um, I don't know if Reese Witherspoon counts, but I just, I love she does, I love Reese because I love. I love, uh, thought leaders, especially women who are unapologetically feminine, but multifaceted and just so bright and embody like our core values.

Right. And I think Brene and Reese are fantastic. And then other thought leaders, I would say, I don't, Shaza is a coach. Uh, and he, he co he does all the positive intelligence and saboteur test type stuff and research around what are your self sabotaging beliefs. And so I really love him. And then, Obviously, like, you know, you've got your, uh, Tim Ferriss of the world, like love me some, Tim sometimes.

So I think it's, it's mostly those, those folks. Very cool. So what's next for you? Where are we going? We're the journey never stops, Chris. You know, just, uh, don't even know where the destination is. You know, I think we are really leveling up our community offerings. So SA Club and SA Circle is really what's next this year, is to deepen that connection with others on a shared journey for personal growth.

I think Weight Watchers has figured it out for weight loss. Noom has figured it out for weight loss. PLO has figured it out for fitness. It's time for mental wellness to have that same peer-to-peer driven mentality. And so that's really what's next, you know, at Silk and Saunder. And then I think for me it's really, uh, personally, I think it's h how does Silk and Saunder create the next gold standard for company culture where work-life balance is not clocking in and clocking out and separating.

It's about. Combining and like recognizing that ambition is powered by self-acceptance. And everyone that works at Silk and Saunder or works, you know, on the periphery of Silk and Saunder or as a customer of Silk and Saunder, can define ambition on their own terms and let it evolve, you know, through live stages.

And so for me, I think about that a lot because we're trying to build a culture that. Celebrates, you know, mental wellness, but also combines it with championship sports team winning philosophies. And I think it's, it's a, it's interesting, it's like a really like fun challenge that I hope will be immensely rewarding once we, once we get back into building an office.

I was gonna ask you, are you in a building yet, or no? No, we're not. So I raised my round, grew the company, and hired my first founding employees in the midst of a pandemic. And so we'll have to, we're all virtual yet? Yeah, we're all virtual right now. Are all in, are they all in the bay or no? No, there's a few in the, a few in la, a few in Texas.

Yeah. Do your employees get a membership and get the journals every month? Yeah, they do. They do. And in fact, we, uh, as part of our, uh, meeting culture, we integrate some of the softer circle exercises or do a prop together once in a while just to practice what we're preaching. Oh, I just got this idea, so I'm gonna give it to you.

Yes. Tell me. Um, so you're welcome. The, uh, have you ever read the Dream Manager? I have not. Matthew Kelly. Oh, it's really, really good. Yeah, it's a parable. So you'll read it. You know, it's like stuff you'll, you'll read it at a day. It's super fast. But it's, um, the story of a company that their premise was in order to, um, in order to make the company the best version of itself, you had to help employees become the best version of themselves.

I love that. And so they hired a dream manager. Wow. Yeah. The Dream Manager. I have goosebumps. I have so much I could talk about this book cause it was such a pivotal book for me. But the Dream manager is somebody that worked in the company and worked for the founder and that person's job was to work with all of the employees to help them manifest whatever their dream was.

Wow. That's beautiful. Whether it was like job related or not was irrelevant. Yeah. And you know, as I'm listening to you, like you could just totally have a saunder. Dream manager. Yeah, you totally could. That would fit right into your culture and like feed the right, because the businesses that are the most successful are the ones that have the most integrity inside and out.

Yes, absolutely. And you know that as your business is growing, you're gonna get of course those invitations to Yeah. Paint to, to settle or to compromise or, I'm sure you already have and yeah. Your determination and commitment as a C E O is gonna really be what drives that. So I'm, yeah, I'm so excited for you.

I love your business and I love how you're complimenting a need so brilliantly and so beautifully in the world, because as I've mentioned, we need more. Of you in the world. Oh, thank you. More people like you to step in. And so I guess what I would ask you to share, I was just coaching a beautiful new client.

She's a c e o of a gorgeous business and um, she's 3 million. And one of the things that she says she wants to work on is her fear of failure. Oh, and so I'd be curious to know what advice you give women who, this is a very, I mean, everybody has their story about failure. Yeah. But I do think women keep themselves small much more so than do for that reason.

Oh yeah. Yeah. What advice do you give women? Yeah, that's a great one. And um, I think the best advice I have around fear of failure is, It's never a one and done failure. Right? It's a learning. I think the first time it feels like a mistake. It feels heavy, but the only thing that'll help you overcome that fear of failure is one baby step towards action.

Mm-hmm. And once you do that one baby step, you start to instill this confidence to keep trying and keep going. And you know, you realize like, Why should we care if we fail? If we fail? Like the beauty, especially if you own your own company, is that almost anything you do is not irreversible. You're, you're going to, it's always a step in the right direction, right?

And nobody around you cares, right? Like, you can fail all day. But who's really watching you? Are you looking at everyone else's failure? I don't know. They all know I made a typo. They all know there's a typo on my website. Oh my God. Oh my God. I always share this story with new employees because I tell them, I say, if you join Silicon Saunder, you're never gonna get penalized for failing or, you know, experimenting and failing.

But you will get, you will get dinged if you don't try. Right? And if you don't, try to make that failure fast enough so that you can learn from it. And it's much easier said than done, but I remember distinctly when it was back in at nights and weekends, baby project, I accidentally took down the entire subscription platform for Silk and Saunder.

So I lost all the customers information and I freaked out because you, as a former customer know that like you don't get your journal on time. It's like, You're like my question. Exactly. But you know what? Even in that moment, I was able to figure it out and revert it back. And you know, if I can do that as a C E O, like everyone should be willing to take those, take those risks.

And I would say, don't be so hard on yourself because chances are you're not gonna fail. And there's that beautiful quote, it says, what if I fall. And then the response to that is, oh my darling, but what if you fly? Right? And I just, anytime I have fear of failure, I think of that and I'm like, no way. Let's go.

Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You know, I think for all of us who've been negotiating businesses during this pandemic, right? Yeah. I've been at this for a while, and I think all of us have those worst case scenarios and the what ifs. And like Mike, listen to me. We just had the what if year we, we did it.

Yeah. So we had a pandemic. Yeah. Haled shipping and messed up man, the supply chain and Right. Like, I mean, we, we had the year, there was no business that went untouched. Yeah. And so failure is a part of the process. And I think it, and the other piece that I always love to share is that, The other thing about failure is it's it.

It doesn't come with required emotion. It's just what you make it mean. That triggers the emotion. Yeah. And we can do embarrassment. We can do shame, we can do worry, we can do humiliation. These are all the emotions that typically with failure, right? Yeah. And we can stand in that emotion for a hot minute.

Yeah. And then along, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you so much for being here with me and for. Coming on a podcast with a chick you don't know. And, um, I certainly am glad to know you and chat with you. And like I mentioned, I fangirled when I got your Oh, that's so sweet. Your require requirement.

I'm really impressed with what you've built and I hope a lot of women h hear about it and go and check it out. So where do, where do we send people? Yeah. Um, so you can go to silk saunder.com, S I L K A N d S O N D e R com, and then subscribe to Silk Saunder and be part of our growing Saunder fam. We have members in every single state across the country, and.

Beautiful community you'll ever be a part of. It's where we exist alongside one another, even if we don't have the same political or social views or the same upbringing. And it is just, it's so humbling and rewarding to see the thoughtfulness of every member. And you can also follow us on Instagram, uh, at.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I'll tell our social media person gather they're, they're doing a good job. Yeah. Great job. Um, but yeah, thank you Chris. I know I'm an exception to your rule, and so hopefully, hopefully, I.

You know, somebody might say, oh, values are dumb. Like, um, ok, that's even careful, right? Like, the guys in England who has the talk show, the Graham, Graham whatever, he has the red charity. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I have one last plug. Um, especially for your clients and, and anyone who's a founder, that's a, that's also a listener.

But I will say, if there's one thing I've learned and one thing that I hope I can hold myself accountable for is, To always run the process your way. Be your authentic self because that is your best self. So if you're having a day and you're not feeling it, like take a break. If you wanna run your fundraising process your way and not make it a numbers game, do it that way.

Mm-hmm. You don't have to listen to anybody. Your most important stakeholder is first, your customer, and then yourself. And trust your gut. Trust your gut. Trust your gut. So brilliant. Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. One, it's just lovely to meet you And um, Aw, everybody go to silicon sa.com immediately.

Yes. Thanks. Thanks, Chris. One more thing before you go. In a world of digital courses and online content, I like to work with my clients live because I know that when you have someone you can work with, ask questions of and meet with, you're so much more likely to get the success that you want. So head on over to how to ceo live.com.

To learn more about our very exciting, very exclusive program just for female entrepreneurs. We'll see you there.